From Rugby League to Mentorship, with John Ram

John, it had to pronounce that surname, Rami. Rami, yeah. Rami. Rami or Rami, yeah. I just say Rarm. Yeah, all right. But listen, I’ve got a habit of saying people’s names wrong all the time. That’s okay. I’ve got a habit of not remembering people’s name at my age, mate. Listen, there’s people that know me just as Mr Purple and have no idea who I actually am. So that’s quite an interesting problem to have. But, you know, we’ve got aspirations when we hit old age. got aspirations to be a grumpy old man and I don’t really need to know anyone’s names. Everyone could just have a number or a mate. 100% you’ve lived through it all. So just do what you need to do when you get that age, mate. Yeah, we’ve qualified with the haircut as well, mate.

I did mine just before we started, you know. Yeah, this is as long as mine’s been for a while now. This is as long as it’s going to get as well. So anyway, John, listen, I’m keen to know a bit about you. don’t really know each other. I don’t know your back story, where you going, what you’re doing.

And if I don’t, no one else does listening to this. So, so introduce yourself. Tell us a bit about yourself mate. So mate, John Rahm, now I reside in Canberra. I grew up all my life in Sydney. I moved down to Canberra in 2020. There was a whole heap of the COVID and the bushfires here and there was a general lack of work and Canberra had always a lot of work. So I moved down here and my partner who now my wife was living down here in Canberra. So I jumped down there and the whole. So where I am now is I’m in the field or the world of I enjoy doing a lot of mentoring, people reach their outcomes whether it be sport, business, you know personal stuff, whatever it may be and it’s a bit of a long journey where you know if I go back to I started weight training when I was 13 years old I went to a church gym, did there at the age of 16

lied to my parents and started working as a bouncer in the clubs while going to school. So I did a bit of bodybuilding then went into kickboxing. And then about 1999, a really good friend of mine who’s a great physiotherapist, Efrem Boongerik, got the role of strength and conditioner for rugby league side back then called the West Magpies. It’s the West Tigers franchise, but at that point there was the West Magpies still in reserve grade and the Bound Main Tigers. know. So I went over to there and just to watch him and then as it turned out got me involved doing some work with the players. So I was there for a year or two. Then the dragon, St. George dragons asked me to come over. So I started training with their under 21s their flagside in the role of strength and conditioner. And then from the two that was between 2003 2004 season and then year by year they gave me more teams and more work you know and I was still working full-time in the construction game as it was so I would do it before work and after work do that um type of work with strength and strength and conditioning you know so

while you’re there you said you tend to build up you do you build up really good relationships with the players and the coaches and you know the ins and out of someone when they walk in you could just see if they’re on or you just know something’s off so you just pull them to the side and you just have a bit of a chat with them or after training. So I left in 2007 because I had my third child, my third boy and work was just going crazy in the building game and I had to try to get to either Coggera or to win Stadium in Woollongon by a certain time. If I was training at Woollongon, I was getting home way too late. So I left that. I was still doing the construction game, but when I left, a lot of the players kept on calling me up, wanting to catch up.

They had personal issues. you know, an 18 year old player broke up with his girlfriend. It was the end of the world for him, you know? So, so at first that was, I’m a dinosaur. I’ll be honest with you, I’m an old school dinosaur. So at first for me, that was like, you can’t see you’re just 18, but they can’t. What is happening in their life is what’s happening in their life. And they, look, there’s a lot of emotions and feelings at the time, you know? So I learnt to basically, when we were at training, I’d give them the hand of hard training. Then after training, I’d give them the other hand, which was listening to them, helping them work through things and as such. But when I left there, I had a lot of the players still contact me than the players would tell other players to contact me.

And then I’d get a phone call from a company or one of the players dads who was running a company and wanted me to jump in and help there. So between 2007 to 2012, like I had a few clients, like I had tennis player, a boxer, power lifters, you know, people along those lines, a sprinter. And so I would do two things with them,

or just one thing, whatever they wanted, which was mainly the strength and conditioning side, you know, and the mentoring side. So in 2012, Madge, Michael McGuire comes over from England and he goes to the rabbit hose, you know. There was a gentleman, a really, you know, like, you know,

brilliant man called Kurt Riggles. And Madge was saying to him, look, we need to find someone that’s big, tall and ugly and we can that can hit these players around and and Riggle said I got the guy for you. So I went went in and then Madge and I just kicked it. We just look we we just connected really well, you know, so um so I asked me to join in which was part time role which I did. So I would go in there and so you’d have you have two sides of it you have the on feet conditioning, which is the running, the speed work, the skills, you know, and then you have your off-feet stuff. So my off-feets, the off-feet stuff to me was the boxing and kickboxing side and, you know, everything that I had learned through. And so basically, their sessions were held for me with me, you know. So it was like, I just, it was more, it wasn’t about the conditioning side. It was more about the resilience and making them more mentally tough to go through those times when they’re really, really tired that they can understand that they have more left in them.

And there’s always more if the mind wants to go there. So I was part of that squad, was very blessed to do the Lapivana in 2014 when we, when we, the club won the grand final. And then I left it in 2015 for two reasons. Number one, I was really, really busy. The most important one for me, if I’m honest with you, was after 215, I said to Maj, you need to find someone else now, right? Because I’ve said all I can say with the playing group, everything’s going to now become repetitive. I don’t want to make this about me. I want to make it about the team moving forward, you know? And so at that time, Maj and I had developed a great personal relationship, we’re still great mates to the day, you know, we speak quite, quite often, you know, like I still do with a lot of the coaches. So I was really aware of they need a new voice, you know, because they’ve heard my voice, you know, for two to three years now, and I’ve done, I’ve done everything that I can, or explained to the players, need anything use call me I’ll be there and they they did do that you know so and then basically evolving from there you know I was very blessed to pick up work go over to England and do some work with the here we go old age memory warrants and wolves you know with a good friend of mine there Steve Price. So during the during my journey, you know, if I may, I’ve been very, very blessed to work or be mentored by a lot of people in different areas of in and work aspects in life, you know, like, for example, there was a gentleman called Ashley Jones. And about year 2000, someone, I was had to do one of these courses, you know, to get a ticket or something, you know, for rugby league. And someone started talking about Ashley Jones and how great he was. So I was like, Jesus, I’ve got to contact this guy. Right now at that time he was, I think he was with the Crusaders and the All Blacks. So I found his email and I sent him an email.

And to my surprise, mate, he responded to me. And he sent me all these programs. So from that time onward, we’ve developed this relationship still to today, you know, where he still mentors me and I bounce things off him, you know, like Michael McGuire, you know. People don’t truly know that guy. He’s just, he’s very, very switched on. He’s an intellect, you know, he does things really well, you know. I was blessed to work with great doctors, you know, Dr. McDonald from the Rabbit O’s, Paul Arnett from the Dragons, Andrew Gray, High Performance Manager, you know?

Like Sean Edwards, like Efrem Boongarik. Like I just, and Eddie Farrow from the Rabbit Oh, so what I tried to do was I most probably was an annoyance to them because I just kept on asking them questions, asking them questions. I wanted to learn, I wanted to learn, you know? And I did the same thing when it came to understanding people and how they work and the way I sort of put it all together is I’m not a psychologist nor am I a psychiatrist and I don’t try to be one. You know, I just don’t. So for me, so if you came on board Tom, so for me, it’s really important for me to develop that one-on-one relationship, you know, and understand who you are, where you come from and how you want to go forward. But more importantly for me is, you know, do you want to do this? Do you want to work with me? Because I might get a phone call saying, hey, I’d like you to come in and work with my manager. Okay, no problem. So one of my first meetings I get to talk to him, I tell him a bit about myself. And basically then And I’ll ask him the question, you know, do you want to do this or are you forced to do this?

You know, and if he says, look, I don’t really want to do it. Then I say, that’s not an issue at all. Honestly, you’re not offending me. You’re not insulting me. And then I’ll speak to the head manager, whoever it is, the owner of the company. You say, look, it’s not the right time for him. You know, you get other people say, well, would you do that for, you know, you’re getting yourself out of a job? I was like, what’s not about a job for me? It’s not about it’s it’s. If I’m there to take upon a certain role, then it’s my job to ensure that I do that role the best I can. And you need that buy-in from people, that wanna do it. So that’s the long story put short.

And then last but least, I guess, everyone has a journey in life, everyone. And from that journey, we have millions or hundreds of thousands of moments, you know? And those moments where I go, oh, I shouldn’t have done that. Well, I could have done that better and that. So for me, when I’m working with someone, I’m honestly sharing with them all my failures, you know? And okay, this is what I did. And this is what you can do. And I don’t work off of one, a certain procedure,

do this and do this and do this and then do that, then you tick that. So for me, the most important part is understanding the person, where they’re at in life and how they feel, or how they want me to assist them. And if they’ve got the buy-in, then it becomes very easy, mate. Yeah.

I think thanks for sharing that there’s lots of things to unpack there. There’s lots of things that I can personally relate to as well. I’m sure some of the audience will as well. Obviously the the good mentors failed many, many times over. I couldn’t agree with that more. You know, we talk about mistakeology as a facet here. And and it talks to that point where we need to change our relationship with failure is quite a bit. My problem of big takeaway here initially and this is probably really good for anybody this system whatever stage they’re at with their journey is things must always be done on their terms. Okay or talking now about on your terms. Okay. So mentally and this is a subconscious level an unconscious level.

Okay. We must really want to do what we’re about to do. Whatever the action is, whatever the commitment is, it’s like when people say I want to smoking great, I’m gonna go to a hippie fair, but I’m gonna do X, Y, Z, Dada, Dada, but deep down I don’t want to do it. It’s not gonna happen. Okay. And there’s too many things where that your, someone’s volunteering you on your behalf, you’re doing it for other people, intrinsically means you’re not going to succeed. You know, if you do, this can be an easy relapse. Most definitely, buddy. Most definitely. And I think it’s really important that we cultivate and validate that situation. I think you really put it. I think in what you just said there,

so in what you just said, I couldn’t agree with any more than what you said. Now, what’s that saying that I always use now I forget. You can’t force change, but sometimes change needs to be forced, you know? So it’s hard creating you habits and disciplines if you’re not, if you’re not, you know, used to it, you know, and then our like habitual our condition behavior comes in and oh no, I won’t go or no, okay, I don’t want to worry about that. But at the end of the day, like, when someone commits to something then that’s when you’re going to get when they truly commit to something and are willing to do

what needs to be done for change then I’m not the main source of the change they are you know and a lot of people out there and with all due respect to them you know and this is why I don’t do much social media because I don’t do it well I don’t know how to do it you know Is it they will go out there and they’ll go hey John Rahm here from Neptune Scaliburations wait Just want to let you know be working with Tom Hitchcock, you know Hitchcock sorry and yeah, so he’s doing fantastic I’ll help him doing this help him doing this. No you didn’t. No you didn’t you assisted him You were the water boy. You were the carrier You know Give credit where credit is true. Yeah, you assisted him But if that person doesn’t want to do it, then it’s not going to happen, Tom.

It’s interesting to say that because we talk about this a lot. We’ve got lots of clients we coach with in different shapes and reforms through myself, other people in the organisation. But no one ever knows who they are unless they want people to know. 100% who they are. And it’s really important to talk into your exact point is they do everything. And I tried, I tried with this business coaching earlier and I preempt this. Okay. Your ROI, what you’re doing, okay, is, so I’ve just lost my feds slightly there. That’s okay. It’s not an immediate quick fix. It’s not an instant gratification point, okay. I’m not going to be here waving a magic wand and doing the things that you need to do. to do, what happens is you do everything and what if I do my job correctly you should almost feel ripped off. You’re not telling me anything, I’ve done it all myself.

100% buddy, 100% I agree with you. I’m gonna share it with you a quick story with this. I’m gonna actually I’m gonna say one quick story then another quick story. So when I was at the dragons I could be quite voiceless when I was training the kids and the boys you know and I wasn’t getting a response from the a lot of the Pacific Islander boys you know and when I was talking to them they do this and I’m like no look me in the eye I’m talking to you you know so I got pulled up and by Steve Price who’s good you know and he said to me JR so if you ask anyone in rugby league do you know John Rahm they’ll say no if you say JR they know me You know, because that’s what my nickname was. And he said to me, J.R.

Listen, mate, you’re missing something here. These islander boys, these Pacific Islander boys, right? Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, New Zealand, a lot of them have religious families. Right. And they’re very religious. And you’re standing there swearing at them like a trooper.

He goes, and when you are, when you’re talking to them and they drop their head, you think that’s a sign of disrespect? It’s not. It’s a sign of respect because with their elders, they put their head down. So culturally, that was something I had to learn and something that I, you know, I learned with every person. That’s why I’d like to go into their background.

Onto the other point was I was asked if you and I could do this, we’d be billionaires. And if you know a way to do this, I’m telling you, we’ll kill it. We’ll retire next year. So there was two business owners and the same company. I went in there. They, they were talking to me and I was trying to explain to them. You know, this is it’s a long journey. It’s not a quick fix You know, if you think this is gonna take anything anything less than six months You’re kidding yourself and don’t waste your time, you know, and and I don’t want to waste your time You know, it’s gonna be more so after the six-month period to the year You’ll start seeing changes if they want the changes one of the business partners said to me, okay, so what if We paid you to come in with all our site managers all the foreman everyone and you spoke to them and you motivated them, right?

We’ll that then for the next year with that lift up productivity, you know, and we’ll be all become better. I remember looking at him, saying to him, if I could do that, I’d be a billionaire, you know? And I think that’s what a lot of misunderstanding is with what you were saying with your clients and stuff. It’s just there’s a journey that needs to take, you know? And sometimes it becomes very uncomfortable for people because they start revealing things about themselves that they never wanted to reveal. You know, but if I may just add this on before I hand it over to you again, is that I always start off with the same couple of sentences to every new kind. Okay. So when we sit down, I say to them, look, I’m not a psychiatrist.

I’m not a psychologist. Okay. What you say to me and what I say to you stays between us. Now if your boss came into this room after and said to me, what did he say or what did she say or what did they say? My answer to them would be, it’s not your business. I can’t tell you. If that means that he’s going to sack me for not telling you what you’ve told me, then that’s fine by me. The only time that I will say something to someone is if in my unprofessional opinion, I feel that you are going to hurt yourself or hurt someone physically. That’s when I’ll say something. And I think that’s how I’ve always been, developing the relationship with people. Yeah, you need that layer of duty, Keo, and it’s fully understandable in those situations and justifiable. I do think that things need to remain confidential because your choice of words just before was the key, it’s vulnerability. So we’ve all got persona. We’ve all got persona for different situations. You know, you’re at home, you’re part of the guy’s I don’t toolbox meeting you in the pub in the rugby league field doing you know some strength conditioning or you arguing for your misses and the Queen knocks at the door.

You’re going to change very quickly. We’ve got different personas. Most definitely. But the persona we need when we’re doing the mentoring, the coaching and the things that actually enable change is a very personal one. It’s one without the facade. Number one, number two, number three, get the layer down. Okay, where people couldn’t feel comfortable to squares to validate stupid ideas. So just be absolutely themselves. Okay, and that’s where the magic happens. That’s the magic spot. Now you will never get to that if there’s a strict code of confidentiality. It’s impossible because you’re just gonna get the facade. You’re gonna get, yeah, brilliant, great lip service done. My guessing surface level change but nothing long lasting or highly impactful.

I totally agree with you, mate. And that they need to feel safe, yeah? First of all, with you. And it’s not just about the physical side that they’re not going to get hurt or whatever, but basically the mental side, that they’re safe with you. They’re in a safe space, and they can be open. And mate, there’s a lot of time. And I must add this about myself. I had to learn to listen better when I first started. Yeah. Okay. So as you’re talking and you’re expressing yourself, I’ve got the answer. So I interrupt and go, you know, and then I realized that I did more talking than the other person did. Now, sometimes that may happen because you’re explaining things to them. That was something that if I could give anyone suggestion to is that. So one of the advantages that I feel was one of my strengths when I was working on a building site as a site manager was if you could imagine, I could have any up to 100 to 200 people on that job, even 250 people. So I used to walk around the job every morning was my first thing I would walk around and say good morning to every single person and shake their hand and they were taken back.

Tom, it’s like, what are you doing? Like you’re shaking my hand. Like you’re saying good morning to me. How are you? You know, and every single person, I would say good morning to him in a almost different manner, you know, because you get to understand their pop, their,

their personality as I’m sure you’ve dealt with. Yeah. So your personality is different to that guy over there, you know, and to that person over there. So you’ve got to then put that cloak of I need to change, you know, and deal with the person and what their personality is. So when I would do that, I did that for a reason also. I wanted to have two things. I wanted to have people if they’ve come to work and they’ve got a lot of stuff on their head. When I said, hey, mate, how are you going today? today, right? I’d know straight away by their answer whether they’re not well or not, you know, then I gave them the opportunity, mate, is everything okay? Right? If they wanted to open up, they can open up. No, it’s all good. Okay, no problem. You know, but then you have that awareness of what’s happening around you, you know, with someone, you know, so I was very, very, very big on that, you know, and I think that’s a good point because firstly, I think a cynical man up that listening to skill that’s receded somewhat much like our hairlines.

Especially at the same time as myself so it avoids itself out. Especially active listening you know as young people listen to respond as we probably are on here because we’re listening to each other to respond but there’s a difference there is difference is skill set which I’d say to acquire if you haven’t got it because you’re going to stand out you know same as your common courtesy which is common these days. I think what comes out of what you’re doing there with in the macro sense is you’re picking up people’s baseline okay so once you can see the same same you understand there’s slight variations you know wherever it may be then you know it’s a spike a spike one way or the other okay and they’re both worth acknowledging and they both keep it worth keeping an eye on, you know, so that’s a really good answer, you see. I do want to, we’re getting close to wrapping this up now, John.

Okay, okay buddy. The, I want to pick up one thing, this is something that probably can’t happen in the Western world at least any longer. Yeah. That’s being a dorm on age 16. Okay. You wouldn’t get the license, we know that. No, no chance. No, no. But so this makes that experience unique. All right, this makes it because it’s not going to happen again. OK.

Obviously, your stocky will be 16 year old, but you got a 16 year old brain. Yes. Ten years of hand with hand with security, particularly well. Yes. In my opinion. No, not your opinion, it’s the truth. Yes. Tell us a bit about what you learned and because you put yourself pretty much front line, um, a very young age, which, you know, no, no one he didn’t tell his parents because we all didn’t know what the answer would have been if he’d asked that. Yeah. So, um, I did it first of all for two reasons. Now, all being straight up and honest with you, number one was ego.

100%. You know, and the other part was they thought I was 18 because I looked 18, 19, you know, and it was good money. Now, I was blessed to work with a gentleman who who ran the business really, really well, you know, and he took me under his wing and basically taught me how to gauge the crowd and and what to do and where to be at certain times, you know. And then it was also, so then when he taught me that and time went on, you knew where it was going to start straight away. So basically we would start the night, I’d be on the, not at the beginning, but when I’d learn how to do it, I’d be on the front door always, you know? And it was up to me who I let in and not let out. And generally you know the characters around, you know?

you know, if you’re gonna let these guys in or these girls in or whoever in, there’s gonna be an issue, you know. So I’d rather the issue be on the front door and not go inside of the club and cause issues and cause other patrons not to come back. So then once the club was full, then I would go inside and I’d set myself right next to the dance floor, in between the dance floor and the bar, you know, and that’s where it was all gonna happen. So yeah, there was some hairy events that I still don’t know how I got out of. I was blessed to be honest with you, because I’m not Jason Bourne or James Bond or anything of that sort, you know. So I was very blessed in that side. I keep on saying that because I’m just grateful for getting out of that life at the right time too, you know, because things were going a little bit, you know, haywire.

But I don’t, when I say I don’t drink, I might have a beer or something every once in a while, but if I’m at a party and basically I see someone they’re drinking, they’re drinking, there’s a certain time that I leave. Because, so going through that whole period, everything I saw was alcohol-fueled violence, you know. You know, and look, there was some dodgy clubs we worked at at a young age. You know, again, that was ego driven.

But it did. But it did teach me a lot, mate, you know, of when it’s best to stand down and try to diffuse a situation, you know, or how to act quickly to diffuse a situation, which means basically if it’s going to start, just grab one guy, get out of there, get him out, you know. So at first it didn’t go quite well because it was all about ego, you know. But then you learn, you learn very quickly that you’re not that good. That’s the truth, you know. Yeah. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And so it’s a nice way to wrap this up. I think that’s a good story. And I think the younger people listening to this will relate to that rather than where we are now talking about our mentorship side of journey. I’m gonna nickname you Noah though, I hope you don’t mind.

I don’t think anyone’s called you Noah before but I have. Okay because there’s always two things. That’s me listening to you. So there’s two stories, two things. Two things always mate. It’s like Noah’s Ark. Yeah. Oh God, help me. Mate, this has been great. I really appreciate it. I’ve watched a lot of your podcasts. I think they’re really, you do great work, mate. It’s good to listen to everyday people talk about their everyday selves and they’re not 21 year old influences, you know? Ha ha ha ha. You’re right. And we’ll talk to anybody and let them share their story and I’m glad you’re enjoying it and hope you continue to do so. as I hope people enjoy this episode. Anybody listening to this episode, John wants to reach out to you.

What would be the best method for them to make contact? Email or phone call, you know? So, do I say it now? Well, what we’ll do is stick it in the comments. Okay. When it goes live, put it in there and people make contact with you that way. Not a problem. A bit of ways to do it. Yeah, that’d be great. Why? Thank you. That’s me, I’ve got nothing else to say. Listen, thanks again for your time, John, and I’ll speak to you again soon, I’m sure. Thank you mate.